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	<title>Comments on: Restrict My Trades!</title>
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	<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/11/20/restrict-my-trades/</link>
	<description>Game design, development, and industry commentary by MMO Game Designer Ryan Shwayder.</description>
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		<title>By: Because it&#8217;s not over until I say it&#8217;s over &#124; Mahogany Finish</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/11/20/restrict-my-trades/comment-page-1/#comment-74969</link>
		<dc:creator>Because it&#8217;s not over until I say it&#8217;s over &#124; Mahogany Finish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 04:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=170#comment-74969</guid>
		<description>[...] months ago. Or the somewhat more civil but nonetheless passionate clash of wills occuring some time later [...]</description>
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<p>[...] months ago. Or the somewhat more civil but nonetheless passionate clash of wills occuring some time later [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Because it&#8217;s not over until I say it is &#171; Mahogany Finish</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/11/20/restrict-my-trades/comment-page-1/#comment-74913</link>
		<dc:creator>Because it&#8217;s not over until I say it is &#171; Mahogany Finish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=170#comment-74913</guid>
		<description>[...] months ago. Or the somewhat more civil but nonetheless passionate clash of wills occuring some time later [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="background-color: #444; color: #ddd; border-color: 1px solid #000; padding: 10px;">
<p>[...] months ago. Or the somewhat more civil but nonetheless passionate clash of wills occuring some time later [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sierra Kilo</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/11/20/restrict-my-trades/comment-page-1/#comment-11589</link>
		<dc:creator>Sierra Kilo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=170#comment-11589</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;RMT and Microtransactions...&lt;/strong&gt;

I&#8217;m a bit late on this discussion.  Nerf, Raph, Damion, Matt, Korea, etc. have all touched on RMT (real money trades) and microtransactions.  They both boil down to paying real-life currency for in-game goods (or services).
Here&#8217;s one examp...</description>
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<p><strong>RMT and Microtransactions&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>I&#8217;m a bit late on this discussion.  Nerf, Raph, Damion, Matt, Korea, etc. have all touched on RMT (real money trades) and microtransactions.  They both boil down to paying real-life currency for in-game goods (or services).<br />
Here&#8217;s one examp&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Chrisidon</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/11/20/restrict-my-trades/comment-page-1/#comment-11573</link>
		<dc:creator>Chrisidon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=170#comment-11573</guid>
		<description>Quoth Gaereth:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The main problem is that we aren?t building games where the development of the character is the primary goal. We are building games where the character is merely a means to aquire the other goals/carrots within the game. The characters themselves don?t actually grow and improve outside of the itemization and level carrots. In our current games, if you stripped the character of every item they had , would they have any value??
That is an inherent flaw in our current games since eventually it just becomes a race for gear and levels because its the only measurement of ?character? in these games. When being the best of the best depends on itemization you almost immediately loose to the RMT because you actually designed the perfect home for it. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Y&#039;know, that&#039;s exactly why I play EQ2 (one of the best/prettiest games on the MMO market today) and actively follow Simutronics&#039; Hero&#039;s Journey.  While the company has been doing a few things wrong with their PR and delaying the game to market the engine (which GMG should look into, seriously) their track record as a small company that produces an excellent product is there.  Further, they seem to be more character-centric in their design as opposed to item-centric.  That alone is why I&#039;m rabidly drooling at the gates waiting for a beta to open up, despite my letdown by Vanguard and my scarred experience from being a VanBoy.

Sure, there&#039;ll still be RMT, but in a less item-centric game it&#039;s possible for a basic set of equipment bought from *gasp* an NPC vendor to suffice in all but the most extreme situations.  RMT will be mostly used to get around grinding up a character and seeing the &#039;end game&#039; - the solution here is to make lots of fun things to do at all levels and allow people to play together even with large differences in their power levels.  Heck, some content could be designed around a high level character and one or several lower ones helping them out.

As an aside, I&#039;m sure there&#039;s some tricky thing a company could do with their EULA to get the RMTs to stop (by massively increasing risk), but it would either produce a massive PR backlash or result in an expensive legal challenge (or several *thinks* hundred *ponders* make that thousand *nods* smaller ones).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quoth Gaereth:</p>
<blockquote><p>The main problem is that we aren?t building games where the development of the character is the primary goal. We are building games where the character is merely a means to aquire the other goals/carrots within the game. The characters themselves don?t actually grow and improve outside of the itemization and level carrots. In our current games, if you stripped the character of every item they had , would they have any value??<br />
That is an inherent flaw in our current games since eventually it just becomes a race for gear and levels because its the only measurement of ?character? in these games. When being the best of the best depends on itemization you almost immediately loose to the RMT because you actually designed the perfect home for it. </p></blockquote>
<p>Y&#8217;know, that&#8217;s exactly why I play EQ2 (one of the best/prettiest games on the MMO market today) and actively follow Simutronics&#8217; Hero&#8217;s Journey.  While the company has been doing a few things wrong with their PR and delaying the game to market the engine (which GMG should look into, seriously) their track record as a small company that produces an excellent product is there.  Further, they seem to be more character-centric in their design as opposed to item-centric.  That alone is why I&#8217;m rabidly drooling at the gates waiting for a beta to open up, despite my letdown by Vanguard and my scarred experience from being a VanBoy.</p>
<p>Sure, there&#8217;ll still be RMT, but in a less item-centric game it&#8217;s possible for a basic set of equipment bought from *gasp* an NPC vendor to suffice in all but the most extreme situations.  RMT will be mostly used to get around grinding up a character and seeing the &#8216;end game&#8217; &#8211; the solution here is to make lots of fun things to do at all levels and allow people to play together even with large differences in their power levels.  Heck, some content could be designed around a high level character and one or several lower ones helping them out.</p>
<p>As an aside, I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s some tricky thing a company could do with their EULA to get the RMTs to stop (by massively increasing risk), but it would either produce a massive PR backlash or result in an expensive legal challenge (or several *thinks* hundred *ponders* make that thousand *nods* smaller ones).</p>
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		<title>By: Gaereth</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/11/20/restrict-my-trades/comment-page-1/#comment-11386</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaereth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Nov 2006 03:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=170#comment-11386</guid>
		<description>It is definately true that people tend to be inherently selfish and will take the path that gives them the most bang for the buck. If a person with a high interest in a game has disposable income but little actual time to devote to gameplay the RMT portion can come into play. Or they might just wish to have the best to be the best and RMT can facilitate that.

But, there is something deeper that needs to be addressed in these games. Carrots and the meaning of a game itself.

In most of the games we play, be in sports, consoles, chess, or even something as real life as hunting, we have a defined goal. That goal is winning. Of course, playing the game is a fun activity in itself, but most people would rather win than loose.

Now, in a culture and a world that thrives on winning games how can we convince them that max level isn&#039;t a win?? Or that the best gear isn&#039;t a win? Or that doing something the fastest isn&#039;t a win? How do we inform these people that they are attempting to win something that is inherently unwinnable?? How can you win something that never ends? 

You can&#039;t really do that in our current crop of games. Put a person in at level 1 and point out that there are 60 levels and they will suddenly have 60 as a goal. Point out the best gear and they will have that as a goal. Even our terminology facilitates this type of thinking....END GAME. Its a very human thing to attempt to get to the top of the mountain, swim the river, get the nice car and house, and our current games are chock full of carrots that play on that obvious human quality.

The main problem is that we aren&#039;t building games where the development of the character  is the primary goal. We are building games where the character is merely a means to aquire the other goals/carrots within the game. The characters themselves don&#039;t actually grow and improve outside of the itemization and level carrots. In our current games, if you stripped the character of every item they had , would they have any value?? 

That is an inherent flaw in our current games since  eventually it just becomes a race for gear and levels because its the only measurement of &#039;character&#039; in these games. When being the best of the best depends on itemization you almost immediately loose to the RMT because you actually designed the perfect home for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is definately true that people tend to be inherently selfish and will take the path that gives them the most bang for the buck. If a person with a high interest in a game has disposable income but little actual time to devote to gameplay the RMT portion can come into play. Or they might just wish to have the best to be the best and RMT can facilitate that.</p>
<p>But, there is something deeper that needs to be addressed in these games. Carrots and the meaning of a game itself.</p>
<p>In most of the games we play, be in sports, consoles, chess, or even something as real life as hunting, we have a defined goal. That goal is winning. Of course, playing the game is a fun activity in itself, but most people would rather win than loose.</p>
<p>Now, in a culture and a world that thrives on winning games how can we convince them that max level isn&#8217;t a win?? Or that the best gear isn&#8217;t a win? Or that doing something the fastest isn&#8217;t a win? How do we inform these people that they are attempting to win something that is inherently unwinnable?? How can you win something that never ends? </p>
<p>You can&#8217;t really do that in our current crop of games. Put a person in at level 1 and point out that there are 60 levels and they will suddenly have 60 as a goal. Point out the best gear and they will have that as a goal. Even our terminology facilitates this type of thinking&#8230;.END GAME. Its a very human thing to attempt to get to the top of the mountain, swim the river, get the nice car and house, and our current games are chock full of carrots that play on that obvious human quality.</p>
<p>The main problem is that we aren&#8217;t building games where the development of the character  is the primary goal. We are building games where the character is merely a means to aquire the other goals/carrots within the game. The characters themselves don&#8217;t actually grow and improve outside of the itemization and level carrots. In our current games, if you stripped the character of every item they had , would they have any value?? </p>
<p>That is an inherent flaw in our current games since  eventually it just becomes a race for gear and levels because its the only measurement of &#8216;character&#8217; in these games. When being the best of the best depends on itemization you almost immediately loose to the RMT because you actually designed the perfect home for it.</p>
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		<title>By: RMT blues &#171; Voyages in Eternity</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/11/20/restrict-my-trades/comment-page-1/#comment-11060</link>
		<dc:creator>RMT blues &#171; Voyages in Eternity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 20:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=170#comment-11060</guid>
		<description>[...] Lots of commentary out there this past couple of weeks revolving loosely around RMT.? ( from Scott Jennings, Brian Green, Matt Mihaly,?and Ryan Shwayder (Nerfbat), amongst others.? ?For my part, I&#8217;m just?wishy-washy on the whole topic.? While I have no love for gold farmers, and personally think spending?RL money on something as?transient as?virtual gold pieces in a MMO is often inadvisable, I also understand and sympathize with the motivations of some of the purchasers, and think that RMT controlled by the developer would actually be a very reasonable business model to pursue. [...]</description>
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<p>[...] Lots of commentary out there this past couple of weeks revolving loosely around RMT.? ( from Scott Jennings, Brian Green, Matt Mihaly,?and Ryan Shwayder (Nerfbat), amongst others.? ?For my part, I&#8217;m just?wishy-washy on the whole topic.? While I have no love for gold farmers, and personally think spending?RL money on something as?transient as?virtual gold pieces in a MMO is often inadvisable, I also understand and sympathize with the motivations of some of the purchasers, and think that RMT controlled by the developer would actually be a very reasonable business model to pursue. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: weblog.probablynot.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Hidden Effects of RMT</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/11/20/restrict-my-trades/comment-page-1/#comment-11049</link>
		<dc:creator>weblog.probablynot.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Hidden Effects of RMT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=170#comment-11049</guid>
		<description>[...] It started (this time) with Lum, and then spread to Psychochild and from there to Grouchy Gnome, Moorgard, Cael, and Nick over at My 2 Copper: Real Money Transactions. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="background-color: #444; color: #ddd; border-color: 1px solid #000; padding: 10px;">
<p>[...] It started (this time) with Lum, and then spread to Psychochild and from there to Grouchy Gnome, Moorgard, Cael, and Nick over at My 2 Copper: Real Money Transactions. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Shwayder</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/11/20/restrict-my-trades/comment-page-1/#comment-11007</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Shwayder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=170#comment-11007</guid>
		<description>Related link: The value of in-game money vs. monopoly money: &lt;a href=&quot;http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2006/11/theres_nothing_.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2006/11/theres_nothing_.html&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Related link: The value of in-game money vs. monopoly money: <a href="http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2006/11/theres_nothing_.html" rel="nofollow">http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2006/11/theres_nothing_.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cael</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/11/20/restrict-my-trades/comment-page-1/#comment-10990</link>
		<dc:creator>Cael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 19:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=170#comment-10990</guid>
		<description>Nick: Long-standing fight i have with the catass community.  They insist that they need levels, skills and predefined &quot;advancement&quot; in order to play an RPG because otherwise they can&#039;t play a role.

Wheras i maintain that we&#039;re all in Plato&#039;s cave but those particular troglodytes are looking at the wrong wall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick: Long-standing fight i have with the catass community.  They insist that they need levels, skills and predefined &#8220;advancement&#8221; in order to play an RPG because otherwise they can&#8217;t play a role.</p>
<p>Wheras i maintain that we&#8217;re all in Plato&#8217;s cave but those particular troglodytes are looking at the wrong wall.</p>
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		<title>By: My 2 Copper - Game design opinions, commentary, and ideas</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/11/20/restrict-my-trades/comment-page-1/#comment-10985</link>
		<dc:creator>My 2 Copper - Game design opinions, commentary, and ideas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=170#comment-10985</guid>
		<description>[...] Grouchy Gnome (&#8221;Nerfbat&#8221;) [...]</description>
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<p>[...] Grouchy Gnome (&#8221;Nerfbat&#8221;) [...]</p>
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