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	<title>Comments on: MMO Rant #4: Please Don&#8217;t Clone WoW (It&#8217;s Not Perfect!)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/12/10/mmo-rant-4-please-dont-clone-wow/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/12/10/mmo-rant-4-please-dont-clone-wow/</link>
	<description>Game design, development, and industry commentary by MMO Game Designer Ryan Shwayder.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: oe</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/12/10/mmo-rant-4-please-dont-clone-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-40828</link>
		<dc:creator>oe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 01:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=177#comment-40828</guid>
		<description>awsome dude</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>awsome dude</p>
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		<title>By: nah</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/12/10/mmo-rant-4-please-dont-clone-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-39265</link>
		<dc:creator>nah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=177#comment-39265</guid>
		<description>Schoulayer: Nope, the less played classes got a boost, the most played classes a nerf. And I think they do it pretty well, as long as you remember you cannot make a game balanced for 1v1 and 5v5 at the same time!

I quit WoW not because of the game, it's a fun game, but becuase of the player base. Once you loose your mates due to a long break or if they simply quit, it is hard to cope with the pick up groups as most are half-afk'ing/ annoying /aggro-junkie kids. WoW opened up the market for an entire new MMO group.. and this has it's disadvantages! I won't be choosing my next MMO on player base, but on maturity. For expample: AoC instead of WAR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Schoulayer: Nope, the less played classes got a boost, the most played classes a nerf. And I think they do it pretty well, as long as you remember you cannot make a game balanced for 1v1 and 5v5 at the same time!</p>
<p>I quit WoW not because of the game, it&#8217;s a fun game, but becuase of the player base. Once you loose your mates due to a long break or if they simply quit, it is hard to cope with the pick up groups as most are half-afk&#8217;ing/ annoying /aggro-junkie kids. WoW opened up the market for an entire new MMO group.. and this has it&#8217;s disadvantages! I won&#8217;t be choosing my next MMO on player base, but on maturity. For expample: AoC instead of WAR.</p>
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		<title>By: Schoulayer</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/12/10/mmo-rant-4-please-dont-clone-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-38726</link>
		<dc:creator>Schoulayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=177#comment-38726</guid>
		<description>I left WoW because they tend to cater to the most popular classes.  The most popular classes will continuously get the less popular classes nerfed.  All in all I got sick of their nerfbat.

They had months to thoroughly test the power of each class, radical nerfs should not be needed.  Guild wars did class balancing far better, and WoW could learn a few things from that game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I left WoW because they tend to cater to the most popular classes.  The most popular classes will continuously get the less popular classes nerfed.  All in all I got sick of their nerfbat.</p>
<p>They had months to thoroughly test the power of each class, radical nerfs should not be needed.  Guild wars did class balancing far better, and WoW could learn a few things from that game.</p>
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		<title>By: Elquinjena</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/12/10/mmo-rant-4-please-dont-clone-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-33983</link>
		<dc:creator>Elquinjena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2007 15:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=177#comment-33983</guid>
		<description>No, WoW is not perfect, but then again no other game (( EQ live, EQ2, Vanguard)) are perfect either.   I agree with you that there is many good things in WoW that I honestly wish other games would do as well, but then you do run that risk of just becoming a WoW copy cat.

Still it would be interesting to see a list of what people really like about each of these games, and of course the dislike list. Yes, some times I wish the best parts of each on line game I have ever played were taken and placed into one game. 

Like Vanguard, I was hoping for something new, and in many ways it is, but I get this feeling that they copied too many things from WoW. 

The Problem that I see now is that any new online game faces being compared to WoW.  At one time it was EQ live other games were being compared to.  I think no matter what, any new online is going to be compared to another.

Question is, is it possible to make a new and fresh online game that is totally different than anything out there, without falling back on borrowing ideas from this game or that?  Have all new game ideas been used up?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, WoW is not perfect, but then again no other game (( EQ live, EQ2, Vanguard)) are perfect either.   I agree with you that there is many good things in WoW that I honestly wish other games would do as well, but then you do run that risk of just becoming a WoW copy cat.</p>
<p>Still it would be interesting to see a list of what people really like about each of these games, and of course the dislike list. Yes, some times I wish the best parts of each on line game I have ever played were taken and placed into one game. </p>
<p>Like Vanguard, I was hoping for something new, and in many ways it is, but I get this feeling that they copied too many things from WoW. </p>
<p>The Problem that I see now is that any new online game faces being compared to WoW.  At one time it was EQ live other games were being compared to.  I think no matter what, any new online is going to be compared to another.</p>
<p>Question is, is it possible to make a new and fresh online game that is totally different than anything out there, without falling back on borrowing ideas from this game or that?  Have all new game ideas been used up?</p>
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		<title>By: IAM Blog &#187; Raph Koster: Nerfbat says Please Don&#8217;t Clone WoW</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/12/10/mmo-rant-4-please-dont-clone-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-16665</link>
		<dc:creator>IAM Blog &#187; Raph Koster: Nerfbat says Please Don&#8217;t Clone WoW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=177#comment-16665</guid>
		<description>[...] In response to Nerbat&#8217;s article, Raph writes, &#8220;&#8230;he’s actually saying “when you clone WoW, please fix these interface annoyances.” And no offense, Ryan, but that’s not a very deep change (as important as interface is — and it’s incredibly important — basing clone-ness on how autoloot works seems a little bit superficial to me)&#8221;. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In response to Nerbat&#8217;s article, Raph writes, &#8220;&#8230;he’s actually saying “when you clone WoW, please fix these interface annoyances.” And no offense, Ryan, but that’s not a very deep change (as important as interface is — and it’s incredibly important — basing clone-ness on how autoloot works seems a little bit superficial to me)&#8221;. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dyardawen</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/12/10/mmo-rant-4-please-dont-clone-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-13002</link>
		<dc:creator>Dyardawen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Dec 2006 19:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=177#comment-13002</guid>
		<description>I have to complain only about two things:
1.
Not enough bag space in general, even with five bags

2.
The Soulbound concept is most annoying. (Yes, it might be supposed to keep the urge of buying off ebay a bit down.  But I don't think that worked)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to complain only about two things:<br />
1.<br />
Not enough bag space in general, even with five bags</p>
<p>2.<br />
The Soulbound concept is most annoying. (Yes, it might be supposed to keep the urge of buying off ebay a bit down.  But I don&#8217;t think that worked)</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Shwayder</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/12/10/mmo-rant-4-please-dont-clone-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-12912</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Shwayder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 22:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=177#comment-12912</guid>
		<description>WoW is a good game. The few things I mentioned here are far from all I can complain about, but I've tried to keep my posts relatively short recently because people get tired of reading my crap after a while. ;) If World of Warcraft wasn't a good game, there wouldn't be so many people playing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WoW is a good game. The few things I mentioned here are far from all I can complain about, but I&#8217;ve tried to keep my posts relatively short recently because people get tired of reading my crap after a while. <img src='http://www.nerfbat.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> If World of Warcraft wasn&#8217;t a good game, there wouldn&#8217;t be so many people playing it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: What</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/12/10/mmo-rant-4-please-dont-clone-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-12907</link>
		<dc:creator>What</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 21:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=177#comment-12907</guid>
		<description>You've just sold me on WoW. Honestly, if the only things you can complain about on the top of your head are tiny bags and non-movable windows then I'd say WoW is a pretty damn good MMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve just sold me on WoW. Honestly, if the only things you can complain about on the top of your head are tiny bags and non-movable windows then I&#8217;d say WoW is a pretty damn good MMO.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/12/10/mmo-rant-4-please-dont-clone-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-12795</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=177#comment-12795</guid>
		<description>I agree the more seamless you can make the gameplay in respect to non-action functions, the better off you'll be.

Loading times, ques, etc have got to be the worst category - this is essentially likened to dead air time on TV or Radio.

Secondary to that would be "management related" functions such as finding groups, sorting inventory, banking, controlling character movements and camera angles, etc.

If I was collecting things IRL, I would logically group the items into like classes, not necessarily pile them into my bags LIFO.  Adding some intelligence to where looted items are placed or how they are grouped in relation to my storage slots would make the confusing explosion that occurs whenever I hit the "open all bags" macro a bit less daunting.  Even better, how about the ability to sort through your inventory without having to tooltip every icon that looks similar to what you *think* you're looking for (after of course you're able to find it).

I would say third to this would be look and feel type improvements.  I don't know about you, but I have found some seriously graphically challenged games addicting because they play very well, and the management aspects are very smooth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree the more seamless you can make the gameplay in respect to non-action functions, the better off you&#8217;ll be.</p>
<p>Loading times, ques, etc have got to be the worst category - this is essentially likened to dead air time on TV or Radio.</p>
<p>Secondary to that would be &#8220;management related&#8221; functions such as finding groups, sorting inventory, banking, controlling character movements and camera angles, etc.</p>
<p>If I was collecting things IRL, I would logically group the items into like classes, not necessarily pile them into my bags LIFO.  Adding some intelligence to where looted items are placed or how they are grouped in relation to my storage slots would make the confusing explosion that occurs whenever I hit the &#8220;open all bags&#8221; macro a bit less daunting.  Even better, how about the ability to sort through your inventory without having to tooltip every icon that looks similar to what you *think* you&#8217;re looking for (after of course you&#8217;re able to find it).</p>
<p>I would say third to this would be look and feel type improvements.  I don&#8217;t know about you, but I have found some seriously graphically challenged games addicting because they play very well, and the management aspects are very smooth.</p>
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		<title>By: Paladyne</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2006/12/10/mmo-rant-4-please-dont-clone-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-12700</link>
		<dc:creator>Paladyne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Dec 2006 23:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=177#comment-12700</guid>
		<description>MutantForHire -- the game you're referring to is &lt;a href="http://www.eve-online.com/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Eve Online&lt;/a&gt;, which has a robust economic system that can be as complex as you want (much more complex than I can get into here), as well as the ability to set your own (or your company/guild's) faction for other players/guilds.
What I find amazing is that there are &lt;strong&gt;many&lt;/strong&gt; people that I've spoken with (or read) who have very similar opinions to myself about certain concepts -- including many of Ryan's thoughts.   Yet I haven't found a game which espouses those ideals.  So who out there is "doing it right" ??  Have we seen it yet? Is it in development still?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MutantForHire &#8212; the game you&#8217;re referring to is <a href="http://www.eve-online.com/" rel="nofollow">Eve Online</a>, which has a robust economic system that can be as complex as you want (much more complex than I can get into here), as well as the ability to set your own (or your company/guild&#8217;s) faction for other players/guilds.<br />
What I find amazing is that there are <strong>many</strong> people that I&#8217;ve spoken with (or read) who have very similar opinions to myself about certain concepts &#8212; including many of Ryan&#8217;s thoughts.   Yet I haven&#8217;t found a game which espouses those ideals.  So who out there is &#8220;doing it right&#8221; ??  Have we seen it yet? Is it in development still?</p>
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