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	<title>Comments on: MMO Rant #13: Too Many MMOs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/</link>
	<description>Game design, development, and industry commentary by MMO Game Designer Ryan Shwayder.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: TheGooMan</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-72122</link>
		<dc:creator>TheGooMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 13:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-72122</guid>
		<description>WoW is overrated. The only reason why it became so popular was because a well-known successful game developing company known as Blizzard made it. Actually, that in itself made the WoW already popular before the game came out. It made it even more popular due to Blizzard's marketing campaigns for the game. Because they had enough funding, they were even able to extend their game internationally. Add to the fact that WoW has "colorful" sceneries, easy-to-gain EXP grinding and quests, and has a "Western" feel to it rather than "Eastern" (and believe me when I say that some people have biases towards these), you have a recipe for what would deem as a very popular game for both casual and hardcore gamers.

Unfortunately, many of the ideas conceptualized and materialized in WoW are nothing new. Old and fairly recent MMORPGs have already done them. In the end, there was just so many factors involved "outside" of the actual  game that helped it become popular and, shall I say it, successful. But as for the game itself? Meh...

Sorry for the rant, and I'm even more sorry for going offtopic, but I just hate it when people keep comparing WoW vs The rest of the MMORPGs out there because WoW is not, and never should be, considered the "standard" or the "threshold" for what an MMORPG should be.

(Btw, the above comment wasn't directed towards anyone here in particular. I was just making a general statement.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WoW is overrated. The only reason why it became so popular was because a well-known successful game developing company known as Blizzard made it. Actually, that in itself made the WoW already popular before the game came out. It made it even more popular due to Blizzard&#8217;s marketing campaigns for the game. Because they had enough funding, they were even able to extend their game internationally. Add to the fact that WoW has &#8220;colorful&#8221; sceneries, easy-to-gain EXP grinding and quests, and has a &#8220;Western&#8221; feel to it rather than &#8220;Eastern&#8221; (and believe me when I say that some people have biases towards these), you have a recipe for what would deem as a very popular game for both casual and hardcore gamers.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, many of the ideas conceptualized and materialized in WoW are nothing new. Old and fairly recent MMORPGs have already done them. In the end, there was just so many factors involved &#8220;outside&#8221; of the actual  game that helped it become popular and, shall I say it, successful. But as for the game itself? Meh&#8230;</p>
<p>Sorry for the rant, and I&#8217;m even more sorry for going offtopic, but I just hate it when people keep comparing WoW vs The rest of the MMORPGs out there because WoW is not, and never should be, considered the &#8220;standard&#8221; or the &#8220;threshold&#8221; for what an MMORPG should be.</p>
<p>(Btw, the above comment wasn&#8217;t directed towards anyone here in particular. I was just making a general statement.)</p>
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		<title>By: Freak’s Blog Pot #8 &#171; The MMO Freak</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71759</link>
		<dc:creator>Freak’s Blog Pot #8 &#171; The MMO Freak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 01:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71759</guid>
		<description>[...] MMO Rant #13: Too Many MMOs [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] MMO Rant #13: Too Many MMOs [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Daven</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71565</link>
		<dc:creator>Daven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71565</guid>
		<description>"What if you’d never played one before and you looked on a shelf only to find 10 similar looking MMOs. How would you choose?"

There gonna choose the game that their friends play. So having 10 boxes isn't going to make a difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What if you’d never played one before and you looked on a shelf only to find 10 similar looking MMOs. How would you choose?&#8221;</p>
<p>There gonna choose the game that their friends play. So having 10 boxes isn&#8217;t going to make a difference.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Shwayder</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71558</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Shwayder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71558</guid>
		<description>The difference is that you are an informed customer. You know how to tell a good MMO from a bad MMO through experience. What if you'd never played one before and you looked on a shelf only to find 10 similar looking MMOs. How would you choose? The smart consumer would probably back away and do some research online, but not all consumers are smart. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference is that you are an informed customer. You know how to tell a good MMO from a bad MMO through experience. What if you&#8217;d never played one before and you looked on a shelf only to find 10 similar looking MMOs. How would you choose? The smart consumer would probably back away and do some research online, but not all consumers are smart. <img src='http://www.nerfbat.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: JuJutsu</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71523</link>
		<dc:creator>JuJutsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 00:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71523</guid>
		<description>Pffft. I say... "Let a hundred flowers bloom; let a hundred schools of thought contend". If I were a game designer I'm sure I'd prefer playing in a nice oligopolistic sandbox but I'm not...I'm a customer and the more games the better as far as I'm concerned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pffft. I say&#8230; &#8220;Let a hundred flowers bloom; let a hundred schools of thought contend&#8221;. If I were a game designer I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;d prefer playing in a nice oligopolistic sandbox but I&#8217;m not&#8230;I&#8217;m a customer and the more games the better as far as I&#8217;m concerned.</p>
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		<title>By: Inhibitor</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71519</link>
		<dc:creator>Inhibitor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 00:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71519</guid>
		<description>I disagree, mrwuss...it's not the players that are looking for a "WoW replacement"...it's the developers.

There are quite a few that look at World of Warcraft's numbers and revenue stream, say "I gotta get me summa dat!", and get busy.

And then...THEN, they realize just how much they've bitten off, their jaw muscles start to tire from the chewing, and before you know it the game disappears.

My personal opinion is that a large percentage of the current crop of MMORPGs in development are of the "me too!" variety, and are doing exactly what Ryan said...muddying the waters.

A perfect example (to me, anyway) is Ubisoft with their MMO version of Heroes of Might &#38; Magic, a fairly popular IP. I just wrote up a post today on my blog about it, because not many people know exactly what Ubisoft is planning to do.

- browser based
- no box sales
- developed by TQ Entertainment

I would like to think that Ubisoft is taking this opportunity to try a fresh approach to the MMORPG market, but I have the horrible feeling that it's more of a "gotta get me summa dat" move.

Developing and publishing an MMORPG is not something you can just jump into, and isn't like developing a stand-alone game. There are quite a few problems that are unique to MMOs.

It's a learning process, even for a tried-and-tested development company. Unfortunately, there are more than a few companies that are seeing WoW-dollar signs, and what they are learning (and will continue to learn) is that they haven't a clue how to pull off an MMO.

I agree, Ryan...quality, not freakin' quantity. And good luck to us in getting that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree, mrwuss&#8230;it&#8217;s not the players that are looking for a &#8220;WoW replacement&#8221;&#8230;it&#8217;s the developers.</p>
<p>There are quite a few that look at World of Warcraft&#8217;s numbers and revenue stream, say &#8220;I gotta get me summa dat!&#8221;, and get busy.</p>
<p>And then&#8230;THEN, they realize just how much they&#8217;ve bitten off, their jaw muscles start to tire from the chewing, and before you know it the game disappears.</p>
<p>My personal opinion is that a large percentage of the current crop of MMORPGs in development are of the &#8220;me too!&#8221; variety, and are doing exactly what Ryan said&#8230;muddying the waters.</p>
<p>A perfect example (to me, anyway) is Ubisoft with their MMO version of Heroes of Might &amp; Magic, a fairly popular IP. I just wrote up a post today on my blog about it, because not many people know exactly what Ubisoft is planning to do.</p>
<p>- browser based<br />
- no box sales<br />
- developed by TQ Entertainment</p>
<p>I would like to think that Ubisoft is taking this opportunity to try a fresh approach to the MMORPG market, but I have the horrible feeling that it&#8217;s more of a &#8220;gotta get me summa dat&#8221; move.</p>
<p>Developing and publishing an MMORPG is not something you can just jump into, and isn&#8217;t like developing a stand-alone game. There are quite a few problems that are unique to MMOs.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a learning process, even for a tried-and-tested development company. Unfortunately, there are more than a few companies that are seeing WoW-dollar signs, and what they are learning (and will continue to learn) is that they haven&#8217;t a clue how to pull off an MMO.</p>
<p>I agree, Ryan&#8230;quality, not freakin&#8217; quantity. And good luck to us in getting that.</p>
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		<title>By: Teronicus</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71508</link>
		<dc:creator>Teronicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71508</guid>
		<description>/agree.

I've tried pretty much every MMO out there and only three have really captured me.   Pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest II, and World Of Warcraft.   

EQ2 is the best, in my opinion, and I've been a avid player since day 1 (I have over 30 characters between my 3 accounts!  I'm a sucker for the grind!).   I also play WoW because some of my "real-life" friends play it.   If they didn't, I would play EQ2 exclusively. 

I'm really looking forward the 38 Studio's entry, but I'm sure along the way I'll stop and play a few more as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>/agree.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve tried pretty much every MMO out there and only three have really captured me.   Pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest II, and World Of Warcraft.   </p>
<p>EQ2 is the best, in my opinion, and I&#8217;ve been a avid player since day 1 (I have over 30 characters between my 3 accounts!  I&#8217;m a sucker for the grind!).   I also play WoW because some of my &#8220;real-life&#8221; friends play it.   If they didn&#8217;t, I would play EQ2 exclusively. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m really looking forward the 38 Studio&#8217;s entry, but I&#8217;m sure along the way I&#8217;ll stop and play a few more as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Cyndre</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71498</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyndre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71498</guid>
		<description>I disagree, mrwuss, no one wants a WoW replacement.

WoW, is a great game and will continue to be.   We want quality OPTIONs, not replacements.   If someone releases a wow-clone that s just a valid replacement, they have missed an opportunity to expand and grow the genre.   EQII is distinctly different for Warcraft.  They coexist and are both successful.   We need more quality options, not substitutions of one for another newer one.

Ryan is just saying that having 12 new MMOs every week, where 9 are vaporware, 1 is poorly developed and the last has a 1% chance of reaching launch despite its potential, is making it hard for everyone to sort through the bullshit studio spin to see a game worth playing.

Back in the day, if a game made it to a press release, it had a pretty good shot of getting on the shelves, because people just didnt market this stuff that much until late in development.  Now, its like before you assemble a team, you make a cover art for your game, and call it the "Most Antisipated Game of 2014!!!1" and hit the blog and news site circut.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree, mrwuss, no one wants a WoW replacement.</p>
<p>WoW, is a great game and will continue to be.   We want quality OPTIONs, not replacements.   If someone releases a wow-clone that s just a valid replacement, they have missed an opportunity to expand and grow the genre.   EQII is distinctly different for Warcraft.  They coexist and are both successful.   We need more quality options, not substitutions of one for another newer one.</p>
<p>Ryan is just saying that having 12 new MMOs every week, where 9 are vaporware, 1 is poorly developed and the last has a 1% chance of reaching launch despite its potential, is making it hard for everyone to sort through the bullshit studio spin to see a game worth playing.</p>
<p>Back in the day, if a game made it to a press release, it had a pretty good shot of getting on the shelves, because people just didnt market this stuff that much until late in development.  Now, its like before you assemble a team, you make a cover art for your game, and call it the &#8220;Most Antisipated Game of 2014!!!1&#8243; and hit the blog and news site circut.</p>
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		<title>By: mrwuss</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71485</link>
		<dc:creator>mrwuss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2007/12/17/mmo-rant-13-too-many-mmos/#comment-71485</guid>
		<description>People want an epic WoW replacement. If for no other reason but to force blizzard into fixing the things that ruin the fun of the game. That turning point where the game becomes more of a chore and less fun.

The market sees the dollar signs of desperate players and they are cashing in.

Isn't your studio doing the same thing? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People want an epic WoW replacement. If for no other reason but to force blizzard into fixing the things that ruin the fun of the game. That turning point where the game becomes more of a chore and less fun.</p>
<p>The market sees the dollar signs of desperate players and they are cashing in.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t your studio doing the same thing? <img src='http://www.nerfbat.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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