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	<title>Comments on: Dear Prokofy Neva</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/</link>
	<description>Game design, development, and industry commentary by MMO Game Designer Ryan Shwayder.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 08:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Zen of Design&#187;Blog Archive &#187; That Libertarian RMT Argument</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75376</link>
		<dc:creator>Zen of Design&#187;Blog Archive &#187; That Libertarian RMT Argument</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75376</guid>
		<description>[...] Here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chad Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75374</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75374</guid>
		<description>"The irony in Prokofy’s tirades is that she is upset that people who dare try to ban RMT forcing their style of play on her… but yet she espouses a policy of making RMT work everywhere forcing her style of play on everyone…"

The irony is that someone is saying "don't ban people," you're saying "ban them," and think you're the one who can indict her for "forcing" anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The irony in Prokofy’s tirades is that she is upset that people who dare try to ban RMT forcing their style of play on her… but yet she espouses a policy of making RMT work everywhere forcing her style of play on everyone…&#8221;</p>
<p>The irony is that someone is saying &#8220;don&#8217;t ban people,&#8221; you&#8217;re saying &#8220;ban them,&#8221; and think you&#8217;re the one who can indict her for &#8220;forcing&#8221; anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Morgan Ramsay</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75324</link>
		<dc:creator>Morgan Ramsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75324</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It’s true that RMT is not illegal. However, violating user agreements that you have accepted (yes, even farmers have to click “yes, i agree”), agreed to as part of playing the game/using the product, is illegal. Its a violation of a legal document.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The enforceability of shrinkwrap and clickwrap End-User License Agreements is a murky area of contract law.

More importantly, most breaches of contract are not criminal and thus not illegal or unlawful. For example, breaking a promise would normally not result in a criminal case subjecting you to criminal penalties, such as imprisonment and fines. Breaking a promise, however, could subject you to a civil suit that might result in money damages.

When you compound the issue with the fact that minors can disaffirm nearly any agreement at any time during the age of minority, and the fact that there exists little means to remedy breaches conducted overseas, enforceability is increasingly difficult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It’s true that RMT is not illegal. However, violating user agreements that you have accepted (yes, even farmers have to click “yes, i agree”), agreed to as part of playing the game/using the product, is illegal. Its a violation of a legal document.</p></blockquote>
<p>The enforceability of shrinkwrap and clickwrap End-User License Agreements is a murky area of contract law.</p>
<p>More importantly, most breaches of contract are not criminal and thus not illegal or unlawful. For example, breaking a promise would normally not result in a criminal case subjecting you to criminal penalties, such as imprisonment and fines. Breaking a promise, however, could subject you to a civil suit that might result in money damages.</p>
<p>When you compound the issue with the fact that minors can disaffirm nearly any agreement at any time during the age of minority, and the fact that there exists little means to remedy breaches conducted overseas, enforceability is increasingly difficult.</p>
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		<title>By: Defect 9</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75314</link>
		<dc:creator>Defect 9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 02:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75314</guid>
		<description>"quote from Prokofy: When you criminalize free trade, only…criminals engage in free trade.

That’s why you see the thuggish behaviour you do.

Legalize the trade, as some games and worlds have, and you have harnessed legitimate and normal human activity, and then can more easily identify and prosecute the criminals, i.e. those who use fraud, spamming."

So, by legalizing an act which only criminals engage in, you then free these people from their bonds of criminality, and its only the ones who do "other" criminal activities that you have to worry about.  That's like legalizing Meth because some people do it because you want to "harness legitimate and normal human activity".  Curiosity is human.  Addiction is also human.

It's true that RMT is not illegal.  However, violating user agreements that you have accepted (yes, even farmers have to click "yes, i agree"), agreed to as part of playing the game/using the product, is illegal.  Its a violation of a legal document.

Admittedly, on the EQ2 server I play on, I know people buy gold.  Legitimizing it won't get rid of farmers.  It'll simply mean that those who want to buy gold but dont want to support farmers will buy it legitimately.  Farmers, however, won't go away.  They'll become more agressive because their livelyhood is on the line, as is human nature.  Gold selling companies will get more agressive (okay, that's a theory, but supported by human nature).  So, RMT isn't dumb in all cases, but in some cases, it's better to just leave it out.  Let the MMO companies decide for themselves whether or not RMT is for them, since its not your call Prokofy, nor is it mine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;quote from Prokofy: When you criminalize free trade, only…criminals engage in free trade.</p>
<p>That’s why you see the thuggish behaviour you do.</p>
<p>Legalize the trade, as some games and worlds have, and you have harnessed legitimate and normal human activity, and then can more easily identify and prosecute the criminals, i.e. those who use fraud, spamming.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, by legalizing an act which only criminals engage in, you then free these people from their bonds of criminality, and its only the ones who do &#8220;other&#8221; criminal activities that you have to worry about.  That&#8217;s like legalizing Meth because some people do it because you want to &#8220;harness legitimate and normal human activity&#8221;.  Curiosity is human.  Addiction is also human.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that RMT is not illegal.  However, violating user agreements that you have accepted (yes, even farmers have to click &#8220;yes, i agree&#8221;), agreed to as part of playing the game/using the product, is illegal.  Its a violation of a legal document.</p>
<p>Admittedly, on the EQ2 server I play on, I know people buy gold.  Legitimizing it won&#8217;t get rid of farmers.  It&#8217;ll simply mean that those who want to buy gold but dont want to support farmers will buy it legitimately.  Farmers, however, won&#8217;t go away.  They&#8217;ll become more agressive because their livelyhood is on the line, as is human nature.  Gold selling companies will get more agressive (okay, that&#8217;s a theory, but supported by human nature).  So, RMT isn&#8217;t dumb in all cases, but in some cases, it&#8217;s better to just leave it out.  Let the MMO companies decide for themselves whether or not RMT is for them, since its not your call Prokofy, nor is it mine.</p>
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		<title>By: Taran Rampersad (Nobody Fugazi)</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75302</link>
		<dc:creator>Taran Rampersad (Nobody Fugazi)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75302</guid>
		<description>I wholeheartedly agree that in MMORPGs, RMT is a liability. It used to really irk me (nice wording for 'piss me the #%! off') to see newbies getting fluffed or standing behind walls scripting or...

I was the guy who dragged things on them. And I loved watching some high level beasties slay the little schmucks. I did. I would continue to , but I honestly agree with the 'bad taste in mouth' and in games, at the first sign of gaming the game, I leave. It devalues my own work to build a decent character/rep. It devalues the whole experience. Thats why I, quite simply, don't play 'em anymore. 

In non-MMORPG worlds, though, RMT does make sense (if only it would work right). In gameplay, RMT is DUMB. In other virtual worlds that are not based on game play, RMT makes sense.

If you can get rid of the gold farmers in a decent MMORPG, lemme know. I'm in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wholeheartedly agree that in MMORPGs, RMT is a liability. It used to really irk me (nice wording for &#8216;piss me the #%! off&#8217;) to see newbies getting fluffed or standing behind walls scripting or&#8230;</p>
<p>I was the guy who dragged things on them. And I loved watching some high level beasties slay the little schmucks. I did. I would continue to , but I honestly agree with the &#8216;bad taste in mouth&#8217; and in games, at the first sign of gaming the game, I leave. It devalues my own work to build a decent character/rep. It devalues the whole experience. Thats why I, quite simply, don&#8217;t play &#8216;em anymore. </p>
<p>In non-MMORPG worlds, though, RMT does make sense (if only it would work right). In gameplay, RMT is DUMB. In other virtual worlds that are not based on game play, RMT makes sense.</p>
<p>If you can get rid of the gold farmers in a decent MMORPG, lemme know. I&#8217;m in.</p>
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		<title>By: Hermes</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75301</link>
		<dc:creator>Hermes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75301</guid>
		<description>I had a much longer response typed out, but I think I'll instead go with something brief...

Basically, when you say you hate gold farmers because they grief and spam, I don't read that as an RMT problem, I read that as simply a support problem. Having a significant number of players who wish to essentially trade money for time in your game because they value an aspect of your traditional MMOG (socialization, combat) other than the original 'intent of the game' (time-consuming character advancement) should be something you take as a compliment, rather than something which brings forth ire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a much longer response typed out, but I think I&#8217;ll instead go with something brief&#8230;</p>
<p>Basically, when you say you hate gold farmers because they grief and spam, I don&#8217;t read that as an RMT problem, I read that as simply a support problem. Having a significant number of players who wish to essentially trade money for time in your game because they value an aspect of your traditional MMOG (socialization, combat) other than the original &#8216;intent of the game&#8217; (time-consuming character advancement) should be something you take as a compliment, rather than something which brings forth ire.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75300</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 02:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75300</guid>
		<description>The irony in Prokofy's tirades is that she is upset that people who dare try to ban RMT forcing their style of play on her... but yet she espouses a policy of making RMT work everywhere forcing her style of play on everyone...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The irony in Prokofy&#8217;s tirades is that she is upset that people who dare try to ban RMT forcing their style of play on her&#8230; but yet she espouses a policy of making RMT work everywhere forcing her style of play on everyone&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: JuJtsu</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75298</link>
		<dc:creator>JuJtsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75298</guid>
		<description>Jeez, you had to go and use her name. Time-to-Prok was 54 minutes... :cry:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeez, you had to go and use her name. Time-to-Prok was 54 minutes&#8230; <img src='http://www.nerfbat.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cry.gif' alt=':cry:' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Fallacious Utopian</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75297</link>
		<dc:creator>Fallacious Utopian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75297</guid>
		<description>I take offense at the misuse of my good name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take offense at the misuse of my good name.</p>
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		<title>By: Waldo</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75295</link>
		<dc:creator>Waldo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/03/12/dear-prokofy-neva/#comment-75295</guid>
		<description>Do not feed the trolls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do not feed the trolls.</p>
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