Comments on: Where’s the Great PvP MMORPG? http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/05/13/the-great-pvp-mmorpg/ Game design, development, and industry commentary by MMO Game Designer Ryan Shwayder. Sun, 12 Oct 2008 08:22:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: d3g3sh http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/05/13/the-great-pvp-mmorpg/#comment-80357 d3g3sh Tue, 23 Sep 2008 14:26:12 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=37#comment-80357 I think Lineage 2 is the best PvP MMO around. You can attack everyone, everywhere (except for peace zones like towns etc). There are regular castle sieges and fortress sieges, usually with ~ 100 players fighting on each side. There are clans and alliances. Intensive clanwars. Olympiad system is also great, daily 1v1 fights in arena for points, only selfbuffs, to become hero in the end of the month. Very balanced characters, you have to cooperate in group if you really wanna kick some serious butt. But ... grinding is hardcore *sigh* It takes about half a year to become a pvp character. Thanks to some hackers, there are lot of free servers with high rates and GM shops, pvp focused, but they are either outdated or plagued with buggs and donate. Some of them can be fun though. I think Lineage 2 is the best PvP MMO around. You can attack everyone, everywhere (except for peace zones like towns etc). There are regular castle sieges and fortress sieges, usually with ~ 100 players fighting on each side. There are clans and alliances. Intensive clanwars. Olympiad system is also great, daily 1v1 fights in arena for points, only selfbuffs, to become hero in the end of the month. Very balanced characters, you have to cooperate in group if you really wanna kick some serious butt. But … grinding is hardcore *sigh* It takes about half a year to become a pvp character.
Thanks to some hackers, there are lot of free servers with high rates and GM shops, pvp focused, but they are either outdated or plagued with buggs and donate. Some of them can be fun though.

]]> By: Fools http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/05/13/the-great-pvp-mmorpg/#comment-79485 Fools Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:45:00 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=37#comment-79485 The greatest difficulty for PvP mmo's is that the biosphere is misunderstood by developers who usually only have a poor understanding of the business model to go by. They don't see that unrestricted PvP is actually critical for a successful MMO because they see people quiting over PKing. Their natural instinct is to restrict PKers instead of giving different powers to victims. If victims of griefing were allowed a socially relevent recourse, they could shape the world to their needs. If a murderer is able to face a jury of his peers and have punishment doled out by other gamers, then the results will be satisfactory to the community. Instead, most games have no concept of justice, they just restrict activity as it effects their narrow perception of the "bottom line". To restrict activity is to deny players a greater enjoyment with the world they interact with. Some will abuse it, some will not notice it, but all will respect it in some form and naturally establish socially acceptable rules over time. However, smaller developers see EQ and WoW are big moneymakers, and following their lead is safer (except for the part where they spend millions in advertising an inferior product that will ultimately succeed most for its large social sphere as apposed to game mechanics). The greatest difficulty for PvP mmo’s is that the biosphere is misunderstood by developers who usually only have a poor understanding of the business model to go by. They don’t see that unrestricted PvP is actually critical for a successful MMO because they see people quiting over PKing. Their natural instinct is to restrict PKers instead of giving different powers to victims. If victims of griefing were allowed a socially relevent recourse, they could shape the world to their needs. If a murderer is able to face a jury of his peers and have punishment doled out by other gamers, then the results will be satisfactory to the community. Instead, most games have no concept of justice, they just restrict activity as it effects their narrow perception of the “bottom line”. To restrict activity is to deny players a greater enjoyment with the world they interact with. Some will abuse it, some will not notice it, but all will respect it in some form and naturally establish socially acceptable rules over time. However, smaller developers see EQ and WoW are big moneymakers, and following their lead is safer (except for the part where they spend millions in advertising an inferior product that will ultimately succeed most for its large social sphere as apposed to game mechanics).

]]> By: exdeath http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/05/13/the-great-pvp-mmorpg/#comment-78738 exdeath Thu, 10 Jul 2008 23:24:10 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=37#comment-78738 Age of conan- Not pvp. Lol look here (http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9085/gmszq7.jpg) and here ( http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9085/gmszq7.jpg ) Age of conan- Not pvp. Lol look here (http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9085/gmszq7.jpg) and here ( http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9085/gmszq7.jpg )

]]> By: Michael http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/05/13/the-great-pvp-mmorpg/#comment-78680 Michael Wed, 09 Jul 2008 09:23:19 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=37#comment-78680 Try EVE-Online. its the best pvp game imo, since you can kill anywhere anytime. You loose all of you stuff when you dies (gives a great RUSH) besides that, it has the best economic of all MMORPG's. Pros: Great PvP Great economic You loose all you stuff when dieng (Pros, because it gives a great rush) it has a well thought out industry and trade side. You can pay you gametime card with ingame money, so if your good you can play free Cons: difficult takes alot of your time Try EVE-Online. its the best pvp game imo, since you can kill anywhere anytime. You loose all of you stuff when you dies (gives a great RUSH) besides that, it has the best economic of all MMORPG’s.

Pros:
Great PvP
Great economic
You loose all you stuff when dieng (Pros, because it gives a great rush)
it has a well thought out industry and trade side.
You can pay you gametime card with ingame money, so if your good you can play free

Cons:
difficult
takes alot of your time

]]> By: exdeath http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/05/13/the-great-pvp-mmorpg/#comment-78525 exdeath Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:51:13 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=37#comment-78525 Forget the dekaron, the right name of the game that i was wanthing to say is rakion. I don't know how I forgot this one. Warhammer online - Pvp is not everywhere. They said that everything that you make help you faction in the war, but let me say getting some bonus to you faction when you kill some monster, dont make the game more pvp or a pvp only game. You will kill monsters in the same way the only dfference is getting some bonus to you faction. Forget the dekaron, the right name of the game that i was wanthing to say is rakion.

I don’t know how I forgot this one.

Warhammer online - Pvp is not everywhere. They said that everything that you make help you faction in the war, but let me say getting some bonus to you faction when you kill some monster, dont make the game more pvp or a pvp only game. You will kill monsters in the same way the only dfference is getting some bonus to you faction.

]]> By: exdeath http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/05/13/the-great-pvp-mmorpg/#comment-78524 exdeath Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:43:14 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=37#comment-78524 Forgot to add 2 more games. Fury- Its not a MMORPG, Its a RPG multiplayer online game. Dekaron- The same of Fury. Forgot to add 2 more games.

Fury- Its not a MMORPG, Its a RPG multiplayer online game.
Dekaron- The same of Fury.

]]> By: exdeath http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/05/13/the-great-pvp-mmorpg/#comment-78523 exdeath Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:41:18 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=37#comment-78523 Shadowbane is not pvp only game. Why???? 1- You can not start a game and go to pvp like in the mmo games (not rpg) world war 2 online, planetside, shattered galaxy. 2- Pvp is not everywere and anytime, you dont have pvp anytime you want (at least world war 2 online like pvp). 3-The need to have certain level to go to pvp, make the pvp like if it was not open, there many simple ways do to pve (without getting near pvp) to get at the level "needed to do pvp". If at least if they put low level pve areas in pvp areas. There are so many thing others things that make shadowbane a warlike pvp only game. About darkfall, this game will also not be a pvp focused wargame, darkfall will be like: Think about Ultima online before trammel, add fps view, add factions that are "angry" of each other (on war), remove the invencible guards from cities and add normal guards, add more non-fighting things (like the blackssmith, cooking and etc things on UO). This game have alot of pvp, but is not like "now that if finished my character creation lets go to the warfront and help my faction to win the war", like in planetside and shattered galaxy (in shattered galaxy even on of the tutorial quests is to win a battle and in shattered galaxy when you go to a battle you can battle with the most powerfull player of the game if you go to the same area that you are batting) Another games that I tested: DOAC: not open, you have to enter zones to battle and this not feel like a war. RYL2: The same thing as DOAC, newplayers are useless on pvp, so you have to pve to go to pvp. Regnum online: You can walk 10 min (or less) and get inside the open pvp area, but since new players are useless you can not live without pvp. Dark and light: At leasr when I played I think that you needed some level to go to pvp, i think. About the 3rd thing in shadowbane when i said "at least if they had low level pve in pvp areas", problaby people here will say "and the high levels players that kill newbies???" well shadowbane is a war game (or at least supposed to be), since you are on pvp (war) zone, if some high level player get closer to you will have a high level friend that will help you killing. Well he will be not helping YOU he will be fighting another charater you, he and you enemies are at war and in a war when you see a enemy you kill them. Shadowbane is not pvp only game. Why????

1- You can not start a game and go to pvp like in the mmo games (not rpg) world war 2 online, planetside, shattered galaxy.
2- Pvp is not everywere and anytime, you dont have pvp anytime you want (at least world war 2 online like pvp).
3-The need to have certain level to go to pvp, make the pvp like if it was not open, there many simple ways do to pve (without getting near pvp) to get at the level “needed to do pvp”. If at least if they put low level pve areas in pvp areas.
There are so many thing others things that make shadowbane a warlike pvp only game.

About darkfall, this game will also not be a pvp focused wargame, darkfall will be like:

Think about Ultima online before trammel, add fps view, add factions that are “angry” of each other (on war), remove the invencible guards from cities and add normal guards, add more non-fighting things (like the blackssmith, cooking and etc things on UO).

This game have alot of pvp, but is not like “now that if finished my character creation lets go to the warfront and help my faction to win the war”, like in planetside and shattered galaxy (in shattered galaxy even on of the tutorial quests is to win a battle and in shattered galaxy when you go to a battle you can battle with the most powerfull player of the game if you go to the same area that you are batting)

Another games that I tested:

DOAC: not open, you have to enter zones to battle and this not feel like a war.
RYL2: The same thing as DOAC, newplayers are useless on pvp, so you have to pve to go to pvp.
Regnum online: You can walk 10 min (or less) and get inside the open pvp area, but since new players are useless you can not live without pvp.
Dark and light: At leasr when I played I think that you needed some level to go to pvp, i think.

About the 3rd thing in shadowbane when i said “at least if they had low level pve in pvp areas”, problaby people here will say “and the high levels players that kill newbies???” well shadowbane is a war game (or at least supposed to be), since you are on pvp (war) zone, if some high level player get closer to you will have a high level friend that will help you killing. Well he will be not helping YOU he will be fighting another charater you, he and you enemies are at war and in a war when you see a enemy you kill them.

]]> By: yeah826 http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/05/13/the-great-pvp-mmorpg/#comment-77672 yeah826 Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:13:29 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=37#comment-77672 Hey try shadowbane the guild wars are sweet easy leveling 21 classes 12 races Good community and it pretty fun Hey try shadowbane
the guild wars are sweet
easy leveling
21 classes
12 races
Good community
and it pretty fun

]]> By: Maldian http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/05/13/the-great-pvp-mmorpg/#comment-76420 Maldian Tue, 20 May 2008 14:17:02 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=37#comment-76420 @JC: The thing about EVE, and how much PVP it has, is that different people have different definitions of PVP. If I am cornering a market on a certain good in a corner of the EVE universe, I consider that PVP. I am engaging in a competitive, sometimes realtime, activity against other players, and gaining benefit by inconveniencing them. It absolutely is "PVP" in a literal sense, we just aren't shooting lasers at each other or hacking each other with swords. But when you take that view, you then have to conclude that a vast majority of the interaction in EVE is PVP, even in empire space. To me that is the essence of a "PVP _MMO_"--players are always working with or against each other, even when they aren't fighting. And no game that I have seen has captured that essence better than EVE. If to someone else "PVP" means personal combat and twitch gameplay, then probably they won't enjoy EVE at all. But there are games out there to satisfy that urge as well. :) @JC: The thing about EVE, and how much PVP it has, is that different people have different definitions of PVP. If I am cornering a market on a certain good in a corner of the EVE universe, I consider that PVP. I am engaging in a competitive, sometimes realtime, activity against other players, and gaining benefit by inconveniencing them. It absolutely is “PVP” in a literal sense, we just aren’t shooting lasers at each other or hacking each other with swords.

But when you take that view, you then have to conclude that a vast majority of the interaction in EVE is PVP, even in empire space.

To me that is the essence of a “PVP _MMO_”–players are always working with or against each other, even when they aren’t fighting. And no game that I have seen has captured that essence better than EVE. If to someone else “PVP” means personal combat and twitch gameplay, then probably they won’t enjoy EVE at all. But there are games out there to satisfy that urge as well. :)

]]> By: Monique http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/05/13/the-great-pvp-mmorpg/#comment-76399 Monique Mon, 19 May 2008 09:02:38 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=37#comment-76399 I would vote that Asheron's Call was heavily PvP based on Darktide. It was the most fun I had in ages; being able to dodge spells was a great idea. World of Warcraft was always RNG and horribly confined PvP, but I loved the old days of trying to zone into Molten Core or even Naxxramas, only to have a 40 on 40 war--it's a shame PvP was never truly refined there and was frequently luck based. Still, you're right. There is no true PvP game, and most games who have PvP systems need a severe rehash of their system. Or their games are just failures in other departments. Warhammer looks terrible even though it's PvP focused; after playing the beta and experiencing the awkward controls and engine, I'm not sure it'll be half as good as I'd hope. I would vote that Asheron’s Call was heavily PvP based on Darktide. It was the most fun I had in ages; being able to dodge spells was a great idea. World of Warcraft was always RNG and horribly confined PvP, but I loved the old days of trying to zone into Molten Core or even Naxxramas, only to have a 40 on 40 war–it’s a shame PvP was never truly refined there and was frequently luck based.

Still, you’re right. There is no true PvP game, and most games who have PvP systems need a severe rehash of their system. Or their games are just failures in other departments. Warhammer looks terrible even though it’s PvP focused; after playing the beta and experiencing the awkward controls and engine, I’m not sure it’ll be half as good as I’d hope.

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