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	<title>Comments on: Open Letters to MMORPG Players/Developers</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/06/03/open-letters-to-mmorpg-playersdevelopers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/06/03/open-letters-to-mmorpg-playersdevelopers/</link>
	<description>Game design, development, and industry commentary by MMO Game Designer Ryan Shwayder.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Stella</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/06/03/open-letters-to-mmorpg-playersdevelopers/comment-page-1/#comment-77796</link>
		<dc:creator>Stella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=508#comment-77796</guid>
		<description>:grin: Can I talk about business here. Please dunt mad with me ...because that's what our company is planning to run.Can I get contact with Develpers OR at least developers would be so  kind enough to drop me an email. Can? :lol: We want to be a MMORPG operator in Singapore. :razz: Thanks for give me a chance. My contact email is stella.hmaine@gmail.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://www.nerfbat.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':grin:' class='wp-smiley' /> Can I talk about business here. Please dunt mad with me &#8230;because that&#8217;s what our company is planning to run.Can I get contact with Develpers OR at least developers would be so  kind enough to drop me an email. Can? <img src='http://www.nerfbat.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' /> We want to be a MMORPG operator in Singapore. <img src='http://www.nerfbat.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':razz:' class='wp-smiley' /> Thanks for give me a chance. My contact email is <a href="mailto:stella.hmaine@gmail.com">stella.hmaine@gmail.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Defect9</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/06/03/open-letters-to-mmorpg-playersdevelopers/comment-page-1/#comment-76976</link>
		<dc:creator>Defect9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 08:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=508#comment-76976</guid>
		<description>what bugs me is the players that arent happy unless their class is the absolute best (we already know which classes), and will whine and cry until other classes are nerfed to "their satisfaction", instead of asking, calmly, for the devs to check into it, because they saw a few parses that were off

it also bugs me when the developers cave to that shit over and over, but sometimes it's honestly warranted, even if i do hate parsetards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what bugs me is the players that arent happy unless their class is the absolute best (we already know which classes), and will whine and cry until other classes are nerfed to &#8220;their satisfaction&#8221;, instead of asking, calmly, for the devs to check into it, because they saw a few parses that were off</p>
<p>it also bugs me when the developers cave to that shit over and over, but sometimes it&#8217;s honestly warranted, even if i do hate parsetards.</p>
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		<title>By: makkaio</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/06/03/open-letters-to-mmorpg-playersdevelopers/comment-page-1/#comment-76922</link>
		<dc:creator>makkaio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 04:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=508#comment-76922</guid>
		<description>Wow...nice...that's all I have to say is...nice.  Now I have to write a post on my blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230;nice&#8230;that&#8217;s all I have to say is&#8230;nice.  Now I have to write a post on my blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Cyanbane</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/06/03/open-letters-to-mmorpg-playersdevelopers/comment-page-1/#comment-76921</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyanbane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 03:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=508#comment-76921</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Does that make me a paradox?&lt;/i&gt;

For some reason I keep thinking of that scene in American Beauty where Annette Benning keeps slapping herself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Does that make me a paradox?</i></p>
<p>For some reason I keep thinking of that scene in American Beauty where Annette Benning keeps slapping herself.</p>
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		<title>By: JuJutsu</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/06/03/open-letters-to-mmorpg-playersdevelopers/comment-page-1/#comment-76920</link>
		<dc:creator>JuJutsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 03:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=508#comment-76920</guid>
		<description>I don't really hold it against developers when they change the game so that it's less fun, I just move on to another game. Finding a new game is easy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t really hold it against developers when they change the game so that it&#8217;s less fun, I just move on to another game. Finding a new game is easy.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Shwayder</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/06/03/open-letters-to-mmorpg-playersdevelopers/comment-page-1/#comment-76908</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Shwayder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 23:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=508#comment-76908</guid>
		<description>I can't name one developer who actively has tried to make the game less fun for anyone with the exception of:

1) gold farmers
2) exploiters
3) anyone else who is flagrantly violating the terms of service

And, in fact, I'd be happy to make the game less enjoyable for all of them as well, because it makes the game more enjoyable for everyone else.

Yes, you do nerf things sometimes in the knowledge that it WILL make it less enjoyable for some people, but it's always with the intent to make the game more enjoyable for the most possible people. In the world of MMO development, majority rules.

And yeah, I have seen some pretty idiotic changes by people I've worked with or by people who worked on games I was playing. These are generally mistakes or something born of misunderstanding (which I'd generally translate as a mistake).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t name one developer who actively has tried to make the game less fun for anyone with the exception of:</p>
<p>1) gold farmers<br />
2) exploiters<br />
3) anyone else who is flagrantly violating the terms of service</p>
<p>And, in fact, I&#8217;d be happy to make the game less enjoyable for all of them as well, because it makes the game more enjoyable for everyone else.</p>
<p>Yes, you do nerf things sometimes in the knowledge that it WILL make it less enjoyable for some people, but it&#8217;s always with the intent to make the game more enjoyable for the most possible people. In the world of MMO development, majority rules.</p>
<p>And yeah, I have seen some pretty idiotic changes by people I&#8217;ve worked with or by people who worked on games I was playing. These are generally mistakes or something born of misunderstanding (which I&#8217;d generally translate as a mistake).</p>
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		<title>By: Nybling</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/06/03/open-letters-to-mmorpg-playersdevelopers/comment-page-1/#comment-76896</link>
		<dc:creator>Nybling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=508#comment-76896</guid>
		<description>Eh, nerfs happen.  What pisses me off is when people don't bother to explain what rationale they had in nerfing something, they just do it and expect people to take it.  If developers came out and said, "We had to tone down this, this and this because it was doing this, this and this and it was not intended that way, it was intended this way."  I can handle that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh, nerfs happen.  What pisses me off is when people don&#8217;t bother to explain what rationale they had in nerfing something, they just do it and expect people to take it.  If developers came out and said, &#8220;We had to tone down this, this and this because it was doing this, this and this and it was not intended that way, it was intended this way.&#8221;  I can handle that.</p>
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		<title>By: Genda</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/06/03/open-letters-to-mmorpg-playersdevelopers/comment-page-1/#comment-76895</link>
		<dc:creator>Genda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=508#comment-76895</guid>
		<description>One other thing, sorry for the extra post.  Harping on developers is like crying "Wolf!"  Over time, they hear you less and less because no one wants to listen to someone calling them an idiot over and over again.  If they did like that they wouldn't be right inside.  :shock:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other thing, sorry for the extra post.  Harping on developers is like crying &#8220;Wolf!&#8221;  Over time, they hear you less and less because no one wants to listen to someone calling them an idiot over and over again.  If they did like that they wouldn&#8217;t be right inside.  <img src='http://www.nerfbat.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif' alt=':shock:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Genda</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/06/03/open-letters-to-mmorpg-playersdevelopers/comment-page-1/#comment-76894</link>
		<dc:creator>Genda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=508#comment-76894</guid>
		<description>I feel for developers, I really do.  Make a perfectly balanced system and they will complain that it's "just Rock/Paper/Scissors" or "all the classes feel the same, there's no differentiation.  Make them different enough and it's "Nerf Shaman" or my favorite right now in AoC, since I'm a ranger; "Nerf Rangers."

As a player you have to learn to roll with the changes.  This is something I did long ago.  It's self-centered and idiotic to think that developers just like to screw with you.  I have been in that environment and I can tell you players that there is nothing further from the truth.

It's a sign of the overall level of emotional maturity present in a game or class (either in lack or surplus) when you observe how they react.  It's a stretch but it still applies to say;  "Tough times don't build character, they reveal it."  It's one thing to whine and complain (something I like to think I excel at) but another entirely to cast aspersions about someone that is building a game that "must hate my class."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel for developers, I really do.  Make a perfectly balanced system and they will complain that it&#8217;s &#8220;just Rock/Paper/Scissors&#8221; or &#8220;all the classes feel the same, there&#8217;s no differentiation.  Make them different enough and it&#8217;s &#8220;Nerf Shaman&#8221; or my favorite right now in AoC, since I&#8217;m a ranger; &#8220;Nerf Rangers.&#8221;</p>
<p>As a player you have to learn to roll with the changes.  This is something I did long ago.  It&#8217;s self-centered and idiotic to think that developers just like to screw with you.  I have been in that environment and I can tell you players that there is nothing further from the truth.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a sign of the overall level of emotional maturity present in a game or class (either in lack or surplus) when you observe how they react.  It&#8217;s a stretch but it still applies to say;  &#8220;Tough times don&#8217;t build character, they reveal it.&#8221;  It&#8217;s one thing to whine and complain (something I like to think I excel at) but another entirely to cast aspersions about someone that is building a game that &#8220;must hate my class.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/06/03/open-letters-to-mmorpg-playersdevelopers/comment-page-1/#comment-76893</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=508#comment-76893</guid>
		<description>It doesn't make you a paradox, it makes you an idiot  :wink: 

In all seriousness, both sides are right.  Nerfs piss players off, and guess what? You shouldn't nerf something unless you have to - unless it's ruining the experience for other players.  Especially when PvP is supported, that's going to be true *a lot*.

In the end I do agree with both sides.  My take is pretty simple - as developers we need to be aware that the players having fun is priority #1.  It's not a good game if they're not having fun, no matter how clever your system is, how mathematically perfect balance is, how innovative something is (or conversely how well it meets expectations of established genre players)... if they're not having fun it isn't good, and those things are only tools for achieving that goal.  It's a delicate balancing act only because different groups of people like opposite things all too often and we're responsible for prioritizing how we satisfy those groups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It doesn&#8217;t make you a paradox, it makes you an idiot  <img src='http://www.nerfbat.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=':wink:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>In all seriousness, both sides are right.  Nerfs piss players off, and guess what? You shouldn&#8217;t nerf something unless you have to - unless it&#8217;s ruining the experience for other players.  Especially when PvP is supported, that&#8217;s going to be true *a lot*.</p>
<p>In the end I do agree with both sides.  My take is pretty simple - as developers we need to be aware that the players having fun is priority #1.  It&#8217;s not a good game if they&#8217;re not having fun, no matter how clever your system is, how mathematically perfect balance is, how innovative something is (or conversely how well it meets expectations of established genre players)&#8230; if they&#8217;re not having fun it isn&#8217;t good, and those things are only tools for achieving that goal.  It&#8217;s a delicate balancing act only because different groups of people like opposite things all too often and we&#8217;re responsible for prioritizing how we satisfy those groups.</p>
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