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	<title>Comments on: Massive Guys on Massive Games: Episode #5</title>
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	<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/17/massive-guys-on-massive-games-episode-5/</link>
	<description>Game design, development, and industry commentary by MMO Game Designer Ryan Shwayder.</description>
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		<title>By: Melf_Himself</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/17/massive-guys-on-massive-games-episode-5/comment-page-1/#comment-80000</link>
		<dc:creator>Melf_Himself</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 06:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=621#comment-80000</guid>
		<description>I totally agree that MMO PvP as an &quot;e-sport&quot; is a great concept that all designers should consider when making a new title.

However, I disagree that WoW implemented it the most successfully. Granted, WoW is the most successful game (ever?), but this isn&#039;t due to its PvP.

I submit to you that Guild Wars is actually the best implementation of a competitive team PvP online game... ever. Yes, yes, some don&#039;t consider it technically an MMO, but they&#039;ve got the e-sport thing done pretty damn well nonetheless.

My advice: do some poking around, and learn about the things that Guild Wars has brought to the RPG genre. Don&#039;t try and re-invent the wheel, they&#039;ve seriously done a lot of great things in that game, and the fact that it didn&#039;t get a mention in the podcast implies that you guys haven&#039;t played it. Big, big oversight - you stand to learn a lot as designers if you do some reading about this game.

As an example, have a look at this blog post (yes, I wrote it, so I&#039;m biased :p) - 
http://word-of-shadow.blogspot.com/2008/08/guild-wars-revolution.html

If you hate the idea of wasting valuable man hours researching some game you&#039;ve never heard of, feel free to PM me and I&#039;ll refer you to top members of the PvP community who could inform you with even more qualification than I about all the good (and bad) things related to PvP in that game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree that MMO PvP as an &#8220;e-sport&#8221; is a great concept that all designers should consider when making a new title.</p>
<p>However, I disagree that WoW implemented it the most successfully. Granted, WoW is the most successful game (ever?), but this isn&#8217;t due to its PvP.</p>
<p>I submit to you that Guild Wars is actually the best implementation of a competitive team PvP online game&#8230; ever. Yes, yes, some don&#8217;t consider it technically an MMO, but they&#8217;ve got the e-sport thing done pretty damn well nonetheless.</p>
<p>My advice: do some poking around, and learn about the things that Guild Wars has brought to the RPG genre. Don&#8217;t try and re-invent the wheel, they&#8217;ve seriously done a lot of great things in that game, and the fact that it didn&#8217;t get a mention in the podcast implies that you guys haven&#8217;t played it. Big, big oversight &#8211; you stand to learn a lot as designers if you do some reading about this game.</p>
<p>As an example, have a look at this blog post (yes, I wrote it, so I&#8217;m biased :p) &#8211;<br />
<a href="http://word-of-shadow.blogspot.com/2008/08/guild-wars-revolution.html" rel="nofollow">http://word-of-shadow.blogspot.com/2008/08/guild-wars-revolution.html</a></p>
<p>If you hate the idea of wasting valuable man hours researching some game you&#8217;ve never heard of, feel free to PM me and I&#8217;ll refer you to top members of the PvP community who could inform you with even more qualification than I about all the good (and bad) things related to PvP in that game.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Martindale</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/17/massive-guys-on-massive-games-episode-5/comment-page-1/#comment-79737</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Martindale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=621#comment-79737</guid>
		<description>You guys have seen the &lt;a href=&quot;http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l245/theredviola/goldfarming.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Gold Farming Complaints&lt;/a&gt; about the user in China called &quot;MichaelPhelps&quot;, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You guys have seen the <a href="http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l245/theredviola/goldfarming.jpg" rel="nofollow">Gold Farming Complaints</a> about the user in China called &#8220;MichaelPhelps&#8221;, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Shwayder</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/17/massive-guys-on-massive-games-episode-5/comment-page-1/#comment-79730</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Shwayder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=621#comment-79730</guid>
		<description>I hate to miss you, Travis. I really do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to miss you, Travis. I really do.</p>
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		<title>By: Travis</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/17/massive-guys-on-massive-games-episode-5/comment-page-1/#comment-79726</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=621#comment-79726</guid>
		<description>I am sticking with WHO. 

Me : WHO is in beta.
Guy : I don&#039;t know.
Me: I got in.
Guy: Got in what?
Me: No, got in WHO.
Guy: Who is No and what is who?
Me: I am who and why no to WHO?
Guy: No to you?
Me: No, who.
Guy: YOU!
Me: Never heard of that game. 


AHAHAHahahahhaahaahhhhhhhhhhh.....aha....ahh....it&#039;s going to be great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sticking with WHO. </p>
<p>Me : WHO is in beta.<br />
Guy : I don&#8217;t know.<br />
Me: I got in.<br />
Guy: Got in what?<br />
Me: No, got in WHO.<br />
Guy: Who is No and what is who?<br />
Me: I am who and why no to WHO?<br />
Guy: No to you?<br />
Me: No, who.<br />
Guy: YOU!<br />
Me: Never heard of that game. </p>
<p>AHAHAHahahahhaahaahhhhhhhhhhh&#8230;..aha&#8230;.ahh&#8230;.it&#8217;s going to be great.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Shwayder</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/17/massive-guys-on-massive-games-episode-5/comment-page-1/#comment-79719</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Shwayder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=621#comment-79719</guid>
		<description>That isn&#039;t the abbreviation, it&#039;s WAR. Warhammer (Online): Age of Reckoning. Which is way cooler than WHO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That isn&#8217;t the abbreviation, it&#8217;s WAR. Warhammer (Online): Age of Reckoning. Which is way cooler than WHO.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Travis</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/17/massive-guys-on-massive-games-episode-5/comment-page-1/#comment-79716</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=621#comment-79716</guid>
		<description>WHO beta is going to drop Sept 7.....

On a side note, that is the first time I actually typed the abbreviated name for that game....which I suspect is going to / has already yielded quite a bit of vaudevillian stupidity in forums across the tubes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WHO beta is going to drop Sept 7&#8230;..</p>
<p>On a side note, that is the first time I actually typed the abbreviated name for that game&#8230;.which I suspect is going to / has already yielded quite a bit of vaudevillian stupidity in forums across the tubes.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: makkaio</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/17/massive-guys-on-massive-games-episode-5/comment-page-1/#comment-79712</link>
		<dc:creator>makkaio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=621#comment-79712</guid>
		<description>Nice 5th anniversary edition of the podcast, guys!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice 5th anniversary edition of the podcast, guys!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Magister</title>
		<link>http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/17/massive-guys-on-massive-games-episode-5/comment-page-1/#comment-79706</link>
		<dc:creator>Magister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=621#comment-79706</guid>
		<description>Good podcast. I would like to know your ideas about how to make pvp better in games and what they&#039;ve done right and wrong in games. What I don&#039;t like much in wow is that balance isn&#039;t very good in pvp and when they change things for pvp or pve the other one gets worse at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good podcast. I would like to know your ideas about how to make pvp better in games and what they&#8217;ve done right and wrong in games. What I don&#8217;t like much in wow is that balance isn&#8217;t very good in pvp and when they change things for pvp or pve the other one gets worse at the same time.</p>
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