Comments on: The Fatal Flaw of Public Quests http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/27/the-fatal-flaw-of-public-quests/ Game design, development, and industry commentary by MMO Game Designer Ryan Shwayder. Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:22:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Sunday Sampler - 21 September 2008 | The White Lion Blog http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/27/the-fatal-flaw-of-public-quests/comment-page-1/#comment-80321 Sunday Sampler - 21 September 2008 | The White Lion Blog Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:28:11 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=671#comment-80321 [...] takes on The Fatal Flaw in Public Quests — critical mass. Too few players you can’t complete the quest, too many and it’s [...] [...] takes on The Fatal Flaw in Public Quests — critical mass. Too few players you can’t complete the quest, too many and it’s [...]

]]> By: Journeys with Jaye » We’re Not Press, but WAR *is* Everywhere! http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/27/the-fatal-flaw-of-public-quests/comment-page-1/#comment-80304 Journeys with Jaye » We’re Not Press, but WAR *is* Everywhere! Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:52:23 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=671#comment-80304 [...] slightly ridiculous that the same people over and over are making it personal, and rejecting any thoughtful criticism about this particular [...] [...] slightly ridiculous that the same people over and over are making it personal, and rejecting any thoughtful criticism about this particular [...]

]]> By: Chris F http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/27/the-fatal-flaw-of-public-quests/comment-page-1/#comment-80185 Chris F Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:51:27 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=671#comment-80185 Most PQs with the right class mix through the first 2 tiers are very much doable with 4 people once you know what you are doing and are level appropriate. Still better with more but at least you won't be missing out on content. Like a lot of things in this industry newer games tend to learn from previous releases so it will be interesting to see if WAR abandons older content like WoW when the playerbase has outgrown an area or if lessons were truly learned. Most PQs with the right class mix through the first 2 tiers are very much doable with 4 people once you know what you are doing and are level appropriate. Still better with more but at least you won’t be missing out on content.

Like a lot of things in this industry newer games tend to learn from previous releases so it will be interesting to see if WAR abandons older content like WoW when the playerbase has outgrown an area or if lessons were truly learned.

]]> By: Shalkis http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/27/the-fatal-flaw-of-public-quests/comment-page-1/#comment-80183 Shalkis Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:27:36 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=671#comment-80183 When you say "make sensible choices to maintain the best experience for the real population loads of the areas", do you mean tweaking mob spawn rates and other variables according to population density? Or perhaps something else? Because if it's the former, I could imagine that the live team would be quite busy. Or lagging behind changing player demands. Making an algorithm to do that would require much more work up front, but it would be low-maintenance. When you say “make sensible choices to maintain the best experience for the real population loads of the areas”, do you mean tweaking mob spawn rates and other variables according to population density? Or perhaps something else? Because if it’s the former, I could imagine that the live team would be quite busy. Or lagging behind changing player demands. Making an algorithm to do that would require much more work up front, but it would be low-maintenance.

]]> By: Paul Barnett http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/27/the-fatal-flaw-of-public-quests/comment-page-1/#comment-80179 Paul Barnett Sat, 13 Sep 2008 06:45:23 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=671#comment-80179 Not one to be defensive but we have a big design document on PQ's, one of the jobs of the documents is to pick holes and look at nasty possible problems linked to thinks like player abuse, ganking and low or overly high population changes. The document has this point in it and covers what we want to do about it through live development. Its hardly a fatal flaw that populations migrate through the development of a MMO's life. Nor is it a flaw that the current system would struggle to be fun with a much lower population. It just places a burden on the live team to monitor, scale and make sensible choices to maintain the best experience for the real population loads of the areas. Just as you have to re-vist raids and downgrade the amount of people required in line with your active level population so too do you have to tinker with all your content. It was highlighted (lemmi check) June 2007. The early PQ's for instance have a greater range of loot and more loot drops right now because the influx of players will be higher at launch, that will be dropped back as the population in those areas drops off. Rather than fatal flaw I would have called it.. Considerations for long term live running of your game... As for the anit social point, I doubt you can design for mind sets, but we have designed with posative grouping and posative grouping rewards. The mind set thing we leave to the whirling clockwork that happens behind peoples eyes. Hope that helps give you a bit of comfort on these things. Paul Not one to be defensive but we have a big design document on PQ’s, one of the jobs of the documents is to pick holes and look at nasty possible problems linked to thinks like player abuse, ganking and low or overly high population changes. The document has this point in it and covers what we want to do about it through live development. Its hardly a fatal flaw that populations migrate through the development of a MMO’s life. Nor is it a flaw that the current system would struggle to be fun with a much lower population. It just places a burden on the live team to monitor, scale and make sensible choices to maintain the best experience for the real population loads of the areas. Just as you have to re-vist raids and downgrade the amount of people required in line with your active level population so too do you have to tinker with all your content. It was highlighted (lemmi check) June 2007.

The early PQ’s for instance have a greater range of loot and more loot drops right now because the influx of players will be higher at launch, that will be dropped back as the population in those areas drops off.

Rather than fatal flaw I would have called it..

Considerations for long term live running of your game…

As for the anit social point, I doubt you can design for mind sets, but we have designed with posative grouping and posative grouping rewards. The mind set thing we leave to the whirling clockwork that happens behind peoples eyes.

Hope that helps give you a bit of comfort on these things.

Paul

]]> By: REVIEWGAMESPOT.COM » Blog Archive » My WAR open beta http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/27/the-fatal-flaw-of-public-quests/comment-page-1/#comment-80178 REVIEWGAMESPOT.COM » Blog Archive » My WAR open beta Sat, 13 Sep 2008 04:00:19 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=671#comment-80178 [...] which would have been the alternative for getting equipped. As Ryan Shwayder’s Nerfbat says, public quests don’t work all that well when too few people are online. Between the registration issues and the lower population caps for beta servers, there [...] [...] which would have been the alternative for getting equipped. As Ryan Shwayder’s Nerfbat says, public quests don’t work all that well when too few people are online. Between the registration issues and the lower population caps for beta servers, there [...]

]]> By: Warhammer Public Quests Problem at Kill Ten Rats http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/27/the-fatal-flaw-of-public-quests/comment-page-1/#comment-80136 Warhammer Public Quests Problem at Kill Ten Rats Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:18:57 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=671#comment-80136 [...] while back I read at The Cesspit and Nerfbat about some issues Warhammer Online will face. One quote: Too many parts of Warhammer’s core [...] [...] while back I read at The Cesspit and Nerfbat about some issues Warhammer Online will face. One quote: Too many parts of Warhammer’s core [...]

]]> By: Nerfbat » Public Quests Are Antisocial http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/27/the-fatal-flaw-of-public-quests/comment-page-1/#comment-80121 Nerfbat » Public Quests Are Antisocial Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:07:12 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=671#comment-80121 [...] already commented about how I think Public Quests in Warhammer Online will be underutilized to the point that [...] [...] already commented about how I think Public Quests in Warhammer Online will be underutilized to the point that [...]

]]> By: WARs Public Quests « theBanstick http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/27/the-fatal-flaw-of-public-quests/comment-page-1/#comment-79978 WARs Public Quests « theBanstick Thu, 04 Sep 2008 18:31:59 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=671#comment-79978 [...] Ryan’s Nerfbat: “I suspected that they would dynamically scale public quests based on the number of players [...] [...] Ryan’s Nerfbat: “I suspected that they would dynamically scale public quests based on the number of players [...]

]]> By: makkaio http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/08/27/the-fatal-flaw-of-public-quests/comment-page-1/#comment-79953 makkaio Wed, 03 Sep 2008 06:16:00 +0000 http://www.nerfbat.com/?p=671#comment-79953 Fatal flaw or intended consequence? I agree with Ryan about the flaws and how they can be fatal to the public quest system. However, was the flaw intentional? Is it like the local grocery store giving away free eggs on Sunday? Are public quests disposable to the devs? Well, at the lower levels that is? At higher levels, you can do the same PQs again and again and gain influence. If influence is important, I think PQs will remain important, but at the higher levels. Fatal flaw or intended consequence? I agree with Ryan about the flaws and how they can be fatal to the public quest system. However, was the flaw intentional? Is it like the local grocery store giving away free eggs on Sunday? Are public quests disposable to the devs? Well, at the lower levels that is? At higher levels, you can do the same PQs again and again and gain influence. If influence is important, I think PQs will remain important, but at the higher levels.

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