Comments on: “Fun” vs. “Grind”

By: Eidos

Eidos — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 00:05:17 +0000

Realism is what I like to see. I don’t mind seeing random encounters from time to time, but I hate it when the game always feels like a random encounter or an area inflated with mobs or size that it’s difficult to move through the zone. The worst times is when I am trying to get to the meat of the quest line, but it takes me almost an hour to get to goal, only to turn around and wade through the respawn and back again, etc. If it feels like there are obstacles in my way only for combat experience gain or an unnecessary time sink, I hate it. If it feels like there’s realism to it, then I’m ok with it.

By: Vanguard

Vanguard — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:45:59 +0000

“The question is not whether people will choose the path of least resistance over the most enjoyable path–invariably, players will eventually choose the path of least resistance. The question is, is it worth creating the more enjoyable path AND the path of least resistance (both in terms of development cost and in terms of gameplay)?” – Ryan

The answer is it depends. I don’t want to play a game were all the fun has been removed and only the path of least resistance is left. As long as the fun part helps the world feel more alive and progresses the story line then I would say yes.

Example. World of Warcraft ToC. When you go in there is dialog and story as the contestants enter the arena. The process takes five to ten minutes. Once you have experienced a few times it becomes a time sink and players requested an option to just skip it, which Blizzard eventually did. So was it a waste for Blizzard to have spent the time to create the entry sequence?

From the developers perspective I would say yes but from the player perspective I would say no. I enjoyed the experience and appreciated the sense of story and the event . Had I never experienced it then the game would have lost something.

I think developers have to pick and choose were it makes sense to make the extra effort and when not to, its a balance.

Vanguard

By: Vald

Vald — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 17:03:18 +0000

On the travel times, I’ve long wished for a standard & “FedEx” option where I pay “10x” the toll and get there “5x” (some multiple) faster, it can fit into the loreLOL (faster birds cost more to maintain). It’s poor design to make getting from A to B take a long time after someone’s done it a few times. It’s bad enough to have to do it in real life commutes.

Besides travel, the same applies to anything in a game. Trash or the first bosses in a linearly-designed zone become an annoying time sink. It’d be great to see a game innovate to allow people who have mastered content to selectively skip it if they so choose. For example, each raid member gets a +1 every time they don’t die to a boss. If a raid consists of enough people with a high enough score, the raid leader can decide to eliminate that boss. Straightforward, allows guilds with new/ returning members to not be required to kill old content if they so choose. It seems to me if one wanted to only kill Yogg/ Algalon, you shouldn’t have to kill most of the zone bosses each week if you’ve done Ulduar multiple times already ‘flawlessly’.

Vald

By: Thermoses

Thermoses — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:58:36 +0000

There should be some growth and advancement in the process so that the player can work toward the fast travel.
In the beginning, your character has to run between towns, or use a cobbled-together system of running and fixed teleporting, and the teleportation requires puzzle solving the first few times, until your character has a hang of the system. After that, it’s free to access. Or have a spiralling quest-related increased access to the teleportation network.

Personally, I’d be happy with this feature: safe, off-line travel. If I could log in during breakfast and designate my character to travel to some other city, then log in again after work and have them already arrived and ready for group, I’d have the sense of a large world while still being where I want to be.

By: Draegan

Draegan — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 03:45:04 +0000

Paying money to skip content is not a grind so your whole premise is false. :/

Having to do the Puzzle Option 10 times before being allowed to use the Coin option is a grind.

By: Edwin Ahe

Edwin Ahe — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:09:51 +0000

Creating “path of least resistance” will eventually force everything into that path.
You can clearly see how it goes in almost every modern MMO

By: tantonb

tantonb — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:39:17 +0000

It’s always seemed strange to me that virtual world designers sometimes appear to want to emulate the unpleasant features of the real world. I mean if I could open a magical portal to a sunny tropical beach at will when I had some time to kill I’d surely do it. In reality it’s hard, expensive and time consuming to get to such a beach from where I live. I think I do appreciate having to make the difficult journey from virtual zone to zone – once. Forcing me to trudge from point A to B certainly acquaints me with the distances involved and encourages me to experience the varied environments the game has to offer. After that, for god’s sake give me a frickin’ portal.

As for WOW’s flight path system, many’s the time that I’ve sat twiddling my thumbs wondering why that system exists. Does it decrease server load or somehow? Are they so embarrassed about load screens that they couldn’t bear to introduce more of them into the game? Do they feel that it will delay that inevitable moment when the player concludes they’ve finally consumed the last bit of novelty the game has to offer?

Gaming is for many of us about escapism; we’re not online to visit an accurate model of our own mundane existence. If I want to feel like I’m taking a bus I can go do that. I have a feeling it was a lot more interesting to design and implement that flight path system than it is for most players to ride it.

By: Garthilk

Garthilk — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:53:22 +0000

The obvious choice is to program the cost of flight to be directly related to the % of people using the coin option. It’s a natural response. Like the people that manage the teleporter aren’t going to raise prices once they figure out everyone is using it. In a MUD I used to play, people hunted X because X dropped good gold. But then after a while they didn’t drop good loot any more, and the Y’s which had gone reletively unhunted started dropping good loot. And low and behold people changed their behaviors until it of course switched back to the X’s.

By: Mythilt

Mythilt — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:03:32 +0000

There is also the idea that the ‘coin’ option not be available initially, the player needs to do some quests to make it accessible. EQ2′s Horse stations for instance, or the griffons in TS/Nek. Done right, the quests can even been repeatable to speed the ‘coin’ option up as someone suggested. Each time you bring back the food for the dragon mount, it likes you a bit more, so flies a bit faster.

By: JuJutsu

JuJutsu — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:53:31 +0000

“I like the idea that initial travel involves moving through the world, but after completion of a quest you can bind there so that the journeys do not become as grindy as the daily commute.”

Certainly. Trivialized travel is valuable, it makes a good reward.